FORCE polygamy is easily identified by its rhetoric of self-justifications (which come from the spirit of self-justification, of course).
Of all the self-justifications of FORCE polygamy, there is one self-justification, in particular, upon which all the others are based. Namely, the primary foundational presupposition of FORCE polygamy is the assertion that:
"God is able to do what He wants and that man should obey,
without regard for what others think, including a first wife."
It is an assertion made with two intents for giving self-justification.
One, at first glance, the assertion appears to be a matter of undeniable truth, seemingly being something about which every single Christian would "have" to agree. It appears as an "obvious" truth indeed.
Two, it is also quite clever as it therefore would manipulate any Christian who questions or denies the validity of the assertion as if they are somehow otherwise advocating "disobedience" to God. Without realizing how clever it is in so manipulating them in this way, some Christians
can then be therefore seduced into believing it, as they would understandably be fearful of
being ---or advocating the idea of being--- "disobedient" to God.
With this presupposition in mind, therefore, then all a self-justifying man
perceptibly has to do is
1.) FORCE polygamy on his wife,
2.) claim "God told him to do it", and
3.) defer to this assertion to self-justify himself when anyone else doubts him or otherwise
shows him that God would not call the man to do that.
God forbid, of course.
But that shows how very clever the assertion is, indeed.
However, experience has now demonstrated that there is indeed much more to the assertion than first appears. That which initially appears to be a "truth" in that assertion is instead a matter of the truth being changed into a lie. As it is written,
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools...
Who changed the truth of God into a lie".
(Romans 1:22,25a.)
On January 6, 2001, in an email-post
to the
Friends and Fellowhelpers email listservs,
Mark the Founder of this ministry addressed and analyzed the assertion
(and how it comes from the spirit of self-justification).
He revealed that, in the ongoing history of the advance of the modern
phenomenon known as Christian Polygamy, long experience had thus revealed
a consistent fact. Namely, the fastest way in which anyone of us may now
be able to immediately determine whether someone has been indoctrinated
in the rhetoric of FORCE polygamy is by the person's relying upon (and even verbalizing) this
assertion as a basis for their belief in the Scripturality of polygyny.
The truth is, of course, that true Christian Polygamy needs no self-justification. We can simply and easily let the Scriptures speak for Itself,
and let the true Spirit of God dwelling in us, as we walk in love, as according to
love-not-force, bear the obvious testimony of our walking in God's correct truth and callings. But, in order for
FORCE polygamy to mis-lead people, it must rely upon such
self-justifications, which come, of course, from the false
spirit of self-justiifcation.
As such, in order to make it easy for any of us to remember what this assertion
is, specifically, and to remember how we can quickly/easily recognize it, Mark the Founder identified
the assertion specifically and created an easy-to-remember name for it. History
therefore now records that assertion by that name, as Mark the Founder put it,
The Seductively Clever Obvious "Truth".
The text of that email-post now follows. May it serve as a fore-arming
for all of us in Christian Polygamy, that none of us fall
prey to allowing ourselves to be seduced into mistakenly believing that very clever assertion.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark the Founder, TruthBearer.org
To: FAF Listserv
Date: Saturday, January 06, 2001 12:27 PM EST
Subject: Deeper Love-not-Force & seeing spirit of self-justification's
seductively clever obvious *truth*
____________________________________________________
Self-justification's Seductively Clever Obvious *Truth*
<><><>
Deeper Love-not-Force
and
seeing spirit of self-justification's
seductively clever obvious *truth*
____________________________________________________
Greetings in the love of the Lord!
Dear Fellowhelpers,
This will be another one of those "lengthy" and "meaty"
posts I make from time to time.
While this is addressed to C specifically, to address the
important issues his post raised, nevertheless, I do also believe
that this post here might be of interest and value to others among
us here as well. I pray this be a blessing for all who read this.
Dear C,
A late night post, eh? Yeah, I understand! :-)
You surely do seem to be on "the right track" as you continue
to learn what God has revealed in love-not-force.
Of course, I do fully understand that you are really rather new here, and
thus I do understand how you have had very little time with which to
learn much about what this ministry is about, about all the depths
of the revelation of the TRUTH BEARER Vision
of
love-not-force,
and so forth.
It is a blessing to see that your heart is "almost" there with regard
to understanding love-not-force, as you so rightly do not "get"
(as neither do I) how men can just unabashedly FORCE polygamy
on their wife. I agree, HOW CAN THEY DO THAT?
With that said, I would note a comment you made.
I'm a confirmed believer in Love Not Force. God was teaching me about this
long before I found out about
FAF and its specific terminology.
Praise the Lord that you would confirm that you are a believer in
love-not-force, although I do perceive that there is much more
for you to yet learn about it, in order to fully "confirm" such a belief
in totality of the TRUTH BEARER Vision
of
love-not-force.
(Perhaps I can be of some further help for you in another step
toward that end with my post to you here. :-)
I agree that you are LEARNING about love-not-force, and I certainly
can accept that God may have long been bringing you to the beginnings
of an understanding of it before finally bringing you here to FAF
for the final receipt of learning it in full. And that latter point is what I
would encourage you to realize here. :-) Namely, if the LORD has been
previously teaching you the beginnings of your understanding of
love-not-force, then His bringing you here to FAF would then say
to me that He has brought you to where you may then learn more
and all of it in full.
So, with that in mind, I would say that your post here reveals to me
that indeed, there is MUCH about love-not-force about which
you do still have yet to learn. Of course, like I said, I realize that
you have only been here with us for a very short time so far, so I certainly
do not "require" you to so understand it. :-)
And so, to help you further in your learning about love-not-force,
I will try to share some things here for you.
No doubt, you do seem to be "on the right track", and I praise the Lord.
What I also see in this post, though, is that something is getting in your
way from your allowing yourself to be able to move all that much forward
unto growing and receiving the deeper revelation of the TRUTH BEARER Vision
of
love-not-force. Please understand, I will share this for
your growth in learning about all that is involved in understanding
the deeper and full understanding of love-not-force.
Namely, language-wise, there is a sort of, double-sided,
almost schizophrenic (if that's a right word to use here) matter of
language going on, which I can believe that you might not be
seeing here. (Please note, I am definitely NOT calling *YOU* a "schizo",
but instead I am only pointing out a double-sided rhetoric, for you to see
for yourself.) That is, it is evident from the language here that you have
been heavily indoctrinated in FORCE rhetoric, even though, at the same
time, you are surely trying to demonstrate an increasing learning of
love-not-force (the latter of which is surely to your credit). The language
in this post is that of giving self-justification in the name of trying to not
give self-justification, but in the end, it still ends up giving total
self-justification.
(It is in THAT sense in which I made the reference to
double-sided and "schizophrenic" language, not about YOU!)
Indeed, what I still see in this post is evidence of the spirit of
self-justification in the language, even while you are in a struggle to not give
it place, all as you are trying to find a balance where there is actually no
such balance to be had in this matter.
And that can be further demonstration for you that there are some things for
you to still learn about what love-not-force really and fully is all about and all.
That's why I would encourage you to humbly allow yourself to see that you are
not yet "there" in your having fully learned what God would teach you about
love-not-force, as He has so revealed for us here for quite some time.
But praise God, your being here is most assuredly the "right place" to be
then in order to learn about love-not-force, as this is where YHWH
has blessed us in giving it to us as the TRUTH BEARER Vision
of
love-not-force! Hallelujah!
To begin some more assistance toward that end for you,
I would share the following, in regard to your post here.
Part of the deep revelation to us from God of the principles
of love-not-force is that of being ever vigilant and aware, and of knowing
how to recognize the two spirits of self-exaltation and self-justification.
And part of understanding THAT part is in being able to see
the almost seductive cleverness of the way in which the spirit of
self-justification operates and tries to persuade us men into error,
such as using *truth* to then open the door to then manipulate the
hearer (and sayer) and to allow falsehood to follow, if they accept
such seductively tempting appearance of *truth*.
It is much in the same way in which the devil himself tried
to "tempt" the Lord Jesus in
Luke 4:10-11
in quoting the *truth*
of
Psalm 91:11-12 , to which the Lord correctly responded
(well, of course He responded corrrectly, eh? LoL) by quoting
the appropriate doctrine of
Deuteronomy 6:16.
The devil was not inaccurate in the way in which he quoted
Psalm 91:11-12 as an obvious *truth*, but the Lord saw through
the cleverness of that and responded in Luke 4:12,
saying the larger principle, from
Deuteronomy 6:16,
"It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."
When it comes to recognizing FORCE rhetoric, which originates
from the two spirits of self-exaltation and self-justification, one of
the things, which long experience in this full understanding of
walking in all of the principles of
love-not-force has repeatedly
shown, is the actual source of the declaration of one particular
obvious *truth*. Namely, the absolutely true *truth* that
"God is able to do what He wants and that man should obey,
without regard for what others think, including a first wife."
Long experience has now shown that the source of declaring
that otherwise obvious *truth*, when in regard to men claiming to
supposedly being "called" of God to supposedly FORCE polygamy
on their wives, is that of the spirit of self-justification.
Indeed, the FORCE view, almost desperate to retain some self-justification
for its cruel approach to first wives regarding polygamy, clings to this
seductively clever obvious *truth*. And that itself shows us the source
from which it comes: the spirit of self-justification.
For now, in the deeper and full understanding of all that God has now long
been showing us with love-not-force, God has made it clear that
He will NOT so "call" a man to do that in Christian Polygamy.
Aside from the Spiritual evidence (as for just one
example, marriages now being healed and wives here even
being very happy with this ministry and even me personally,
where previously they were "nervous" about their husbands and
the idea of Christian Polygamy, as they are now
gladly growing in their marriage), we have had
the overwhelming confirmation from God and from the Scriptures
too, as in the matter of
covenant breaking doctrine. (We have
discussed every argument possible for several months, and the truth
about
covenant breaking doctrine
was revealed as so undeniable,
that God would never "call" a man to commit that "worthy of
death" sin, per
Romans 1:31b,32.) We also know that the
spirit of self-justification will work in overdrive to try to prevent
a man from seeing that, and this becomes visible as the matter
of
covenant breaking doctrine
is so manifestly clear that only
by such a false spirit of self-justification, in wanting to hold
on to deceiving a man to think he can be somehow self-justified in
committing the "worthy of death" sin, trying to prevent the man,
only by that false spirit could they NOT see the truth of
covenant breaking doctrine.
Here's where we must truly walk in
the mature principles of love-not-force even toward any such men,
so that they might be able to one day see the matter themselves.
But anyway, in the deeper and full understanding of love-not-force,
one part of it teaches us how to immediately recognize those two spirits.
And part of that is in recognizing some of the standard rhetoric of the FORCE
view (of course, as it originates from self-exaltation and self-justification),
which uses a very seductively clever use of an obvious *truth* in order
to then give self-justification for any man to use FORCE.
Yes, of course, the following statement IS an absolute *truth* indeed, that
"God is able to do what He wants and that man should obey,
without regard for what others think, including a first wife."
No doubt. It is a true statement, an obvious *truth*.
Yet what that seductively clever *truth* there does NOT say, however,
is that there are things which God has already pre-ordained for us
to know, and had pre-ordained for us to be assured of knowing that we
rightly know indeed with all peace and assurance to know,
that He would NEVER do, would NEVER so "call", so that we not make
the mistake of allowing ourselves to be deceived by the devil, as in
being deceived and manipulated by the spirits of self-exaltation and
self-justification.
For after all, that seductively clever *truth* can be the basis of
all self-justification in just about ANYTHING if someone
wants to merely lay claim to God supposedly "calling"
them to do anything!
For an example, a man could lay claim to supposedly being "called"
of God to steal, rape, and keep the wives of other men (God forbid),
and simply use that above obvious *truth* for his self-justification
as he purports that God supposedly "told him to do it"
(God forbid).
But we know by the Spirit and by the Scriptures that that would be
an UNTRUE claim, wholly false, and NOT of God. To say the
very least (which is still a HUGE matter indeed!), this man's act is a
multi-violation of the 7th commandment against adultery in
Exodus 20:14.
For another example, a man could lay claim to supposedly being "called"
of God to have a "secret affair" with another man (!), and then to bring
that man home to his wife and claim that this was a new "husband"
(as if that's possible) for HIM in their family (God forbid). And he could tell
his wife that above obvious *truth* for his self-justification as he purports
that God supposedly "told him to do it"
(God forbid).
But we know by the Spirit and by the Scriptures that that would be
an UNTRUE claim, wholly false, and NOT of God. To say the least,
for those of us conservative Christians, we see it is clearly the "worthy
of death" sin of "men being with men" in
Romans 1:27,32
And yet, in either of these cases, the spirit of self-justification in the man
could then turn around and say through the man that, while HE,
the man, was supposedly "called" of God to do that Scripturally-proven
sinfulness, "other" men who might try to copy his example might not really
be so "called" of God ---as if HE somehow is allowed to commit evil as
other men are not.
That's where it gets even more clever, trying to sound like he somehow
"agrees" with those who would gently warn him against such sin,
while simultaneously giving self-justification to himself for his
sin, and yet STILL opening the door for anyone else to follow his example
unto sin as well ---even as he claims to not be opening up that door!
(Talk about a clever cult mind control tactic, playing with people's
minds! That spirit is indeed VERY clever and we all have to be very
careful about it indeed.)
And so, the spirit of self-justification in the man could get very seductively
clever in sounding as if he is against OTHERS doing the very thing
which he is purporting that God supposedly told THIS man to do!
Again, I cry out, O how clever the spirit of self-justification can be, and
how much more vigilant must we therefore be about recognizing it,
as we are all so vulnerable to such deception, every single one of us.
And so, anyway, that's some of what we have long seen a number
of times, when it comes to the spirit of self-justification trying
to manipulatingly use the obvious *truth* that,
"God is able to do what He wants and that man should obey,
without regard for what others think, including a first wife."
But the deeper and full revelation of the TRUTH BEARER Vision
of
love-not-force has been given to us of God so that
we can see through the deception of the seductively clever
obvious *truth*, so as to then respond correctly indeed.
That is, to know the deeper and full revelation of
love-not-force
includes knowing that God has now shown us that He has pre-ordained
something for us to know that He would NOT do in a "calling".
Just as we know by the Spirit and by the Scriptures that
the two examples just cited above would not be a true "calling"
from God, we are now given the revelation by the
Spirit and by the Scriptures that God would NOT "call"
a man to FORCE polygamy on a wife, and would instead
bring about any true "calling" in Christian Polygamy
by calling the wife as well. God will not make a calling by FORCE,
but only by
love-not-force. That is what He is has been showing
us as pre-ordained so that we not fall into sin and error, as
our Lord so loves us indeed. Halleluljah!
Notwithstanding we know that the spirit of self-justification wants a man
to desperately hold on to disbelieving or refusing to learn and grow
in the manifestly evident matter of these things, such as covenant
breaking doctrine specifically, for an example. As God has
now overwhelmingly revealed such doctrine as matter of affirming
love-not-force (and thus being a part of the deeper and full understanding
of what
love-not-force
really is), we now indeed do have the blatantly
evident Scriptural affirmation of
love-not-force by
covenant breaking doctrine.
As God is true, and as His word is true, God would NEVER call a man
to break covenant, to make the man's word not be true. (A man whose
word is not true is a man whose word cannot be trusted, and we
the Churches trust in Christ because His word is true, knowing
with all assurance that His word is true. Hallelujah!)
The Lord has never broken covenant, as His word is ever true,
(Yes, I know there is the mistaken perspective about
Zechariah 11:10,
in which it might appear as though God would "break a covenant".
Of course, though, to make that mistake is to forget that that is from
the "out of Babylon" prophet Zechariah who was prophesying of the
time when the Lord will make a New Covenant. And that needs
to be understood within the context that the "pre-Babylon" prophet
Jeremiah had already long-time beforehand prophesied of the
New Covenant that God would make, because God's people
had already BROKEN that old covenant, in
Jeremiah 31:31-34!
So, all that is going on with the "out of Babylon" prophet Zechariah
in
Zechariah 11:10
is the mere reality of the
ALREADY-BROKEN COVENANT,
not broken by God but by His people, about which
God would make a New Covenant indeed [in His awesome mercy!]
as previously foretold by the "pre-Babylon" prophet Jeremiah!)
The fact ever remains... God's word is ever true, and He
does not break His word. Hallelujah!
Just as we who are conservative Christians would say that
Romans 1:27,32
would
Scripturally prove it to be false any purported claim to a man supposedly
being "called" of God to supposedly "marry a man" (God forbid),
that very same passage likewise Scripturally proves it to be false for us that
God would ever somehow "call" a man to commit another "worthy of death"
sin, that of
covenant breaking (God forbid), per
Romans 1:31b,32.
This is not a matter of debate here at FAF at this point, as we had purposely
discussed this over and over for several months here at FAF, in order to
have addressed every possible argument about it.
Mind you, all are free of their own free will to believe otherwise, as according
to their own free conscience. And no doubt, as this ministry grows, we will
regularly have new people join us and they will have to learn and grow
in all the deeper and full understanding of
love-not-force
before they might
more fully understand these things.
love-not-force
is VERY profound,
intense, and comprehensive, for sure.
But regardless, we know that what God has revealed for this ministry is
the
TRUTH BEARER Vision
of
love-not-force
as the revelation
by which we go forward in the
TRUTH BEARER Mission of Bringing
Christian Polygamy to the Churches. This Vision
is a matter of bringing
healing to marriages, and it CAN and DOES work when men will seek
to cast off every vestige of the spirits of self-exaltation and
self-justification trying to reside in them, so that they can
then truly surrender to the Lord and thus faithfully receive and hear what
the Spirit is trying to say to their hearts with the message of
love-not-force. O how I pray that all men would be able to do so
for their own joy and even healings in marriages.
So, we are not going to get "stumbled" in this organization
in repeatedly having to consume away all our time in endless
"debate" on the matter, when it has all gone on previously anyway.
And we have seen the occasional adamant advocate of FORCE
come in here to FAF and try to do that very thing, trying to undermine
myself, or this ministry, or
love-not-force,
and/or so forth. Mind you,
personally, it's no big deal to me, as I only see it as a reflection
of immaturity on the part of one doing it. Yet, it DOES matter
when it is only seeking to slow us down in moving forward
with the TRUTH BEARER Mission of Bringing Christian
Polygamy to the Churches. And since the TRUTH BEARER Vision
of
love-not-force is given to us as the means for so going
forward, we do not have to "defend" it anymore here.
Yes, we, of course, seek to help others LEARN of it here, as they
are humble in asking their legitimate questions, realizing that they do not
know all of what
love-not-force
is "about" or about this organization.
For those who do not yet understand, that's fine. We (and I know I)
have love for such ones, and am patient in hoping to be able
help such ones further in their growth in Christ, all the while
we can NOT allow our time to be wasted by those who have but one
agenda: namely, to try to undermine or slow down THIS ministry's
Mission by trying to undermine this organization and its leadership
or trying to get us into endless "debates" about what they perceive
or misperceive about
love-not-force.
So, anyway, the point I was making is that God has given us
the deeper and full revelation of
love-not-force to show us
what HE HIMSELF has pre-ordained to show us what He
would NOT do. This is not about a man "telling" God
what God is supposedly "allowed" to do. Quite the very
opposite! It is about God showing us what He would
NOT do! O that all would be able to listen to what the Spririt would
say unto their receiving such joy therein!
So, this is how we understand what to realize when we hear
the claim from within Christian Polygamy of the obvious *truth* that,
"God is able to do what He wants and that man should obey,
without regard for what others think, including a first wife."
When that rather seductively clever obvious *truth*, with
regard to a man purporting to supposedly being "called" of God to
FORCE polygamy on his wife, is declared to us, the deeper and full
understanding of the revelation of love-not-force includes being able
to recognize that
1) that is coming at us from the seductively clever spirit of self-justification
(even as we faithfully love the man through whom that spirit is speaking)
and
2) God has now revealed for our sake via the full revelation of
love-not-force (by both the Spirit and the Scriptures)
that the Lord has clearly already pre-ordained that He would
NOT ever call a man to do that, as He would NOT call a man to
so sin.
So, with that, I would say that you are "on the right track" in your learning
about love-not-force, C, although there is still much more ahead for you
in your learning process of all the deeper and full understanding of this all,
as I hope this reply to your post here has been of some help toward that
end.
I have shared the above with you as your post made it evident
that you were not aware of these things. No problem. I am sharing
this insight here for you in love in trying to help you further along indeed in
your learning the deeper and full understanding of love-not-force.
I am fervently prayerful that, by now, you surely gracefully understand
that I am not trying to be critical or negative for you either, but simply
helping you to also see a mere part of what the deeper and full understanding
of love-not-force sees in this kind of post. Yes, my heart is filled with
compassion in understanding how difficult it can be for anyone to have
their time spent or even years spent in a particular kind of indoctrination
to then have that come out in their language as they sincerely seek to explain
themselves. And so, I would seek to let you know that I am surely having even
love-not-force toward you here in this, patiently trying to help you
see how some of the indoctrination, which you appear to have received
in the past, has entered in to your post here in the form of FORCE rhetoric,
and how that is getting in your way of more deeply and fully understanding
all of the depths of love-not-force. (And I can also understand
how it can sometimes take a while for such long-time indoctrination
to be fully overcome, just as hard as it can likewise be for Christian wives
to overcome their long-time indoctrination in "monogamy-only" thinking.
So we walk in love-not-force in all such cases indeed.)
No doubt, you are surely having a tender heart and seem to be
seeking to understand love-not-force deeply indeed. Praise the Lord!
For indeed, aside from these things above, which you have simply not yet
realized, I would surely say that you are actually very well "on track" indeed,
and I hope this reply has been able to be of help to you in your growth in
that indeed.
As well, I would say for your edification that, yes indeed, I very much
agree with you that, as when you wrote:
But I also believe that a man who HAS heard God's voice, and whose wife is
determinedly resisting, had better follow God. Had better inquire WHY
God gave him a leading when He did, and WHY God didn't reveal His plan to his
wife at the same time, and WHAT he is supposed to do about it. (Sorry about
that. Follow the pronouns carefully, please.)
Yes, indeed. A man in this case MUST obey God, as neither I
nor this ministry has ever once ever said that a man should or could
justifiably disobey God (as you now see here, I hope :-)
And you are so truly right that he had better do all things you rightly
point out here.
What God has shown us with all the profound principles of the
TRUTH BEARER Vision
of
love-not-force is what that very
man should do indeed!
- Cast off the spirits of self-exaltation and self-justification.
- Not fall into the seductively clever obvious *truth* to wrongly self-justify
his actions which God has herewith shown us He would NOT so "call".
- Humbly listen and hear what the Spirit is so lovingly bringing to say to
his ears if he will but receive all of love-not-force for his good.
- Listen, learn, grow, and walk in love-not-force as God has so deeply
and fully revealed it for us all here for so many, many months now.
But if a man will still resist this, then he should really see himself as really
being no different than the very wife he would criticize for her defiantly not
being willing to receive Christian Polygamy doctrine. Just as she would
be incorrect to defiantly claim any form of "God said so" opposition
to defend her defiance, such a man defying love-not-force
is acting in just exactly the same way in his defiance in error.
(Could this not be any clearer an example of how the other false
spirit, the spirit of self-exaltation, has also taken place in such a defiant
man? I would think it could not be any clearer, for sure.)
O how I would that all could be so blessed in just easily receiving the deeper
and full revelation of all the principles of love-not-force for their blessing
and joy! Our God has lovingly blessed us with this in His wondrous and
tender love for us indeed. Hallelujah!
Anyway, C, to bring this to a close, I do pray that this has been
of some further help and learning for you about the deeper
and full understanding of all that love-not-force entails. No doubt,
you surely have much more to learn (as is understandable, as you
have only been with us a very short time so far).
And so, if God has been indeed bringing you to the beginnings of the
understanding of love-not-force even before you discovered us here
at FAF, in the ministry of
http://TruthBearer.org,
then I would exhort you...
if that be so, then humbly realize (and rejoice!) that the LORD
has brought you to the right place indeed, in bringing you here, so that
you may learn what
love-not-force in all its ways really and fully is.
What an awesome Lord our God so surely is! Praise YHWH!
So, keep up the wonderful growth!
As I keep saying to you, I so appreciate your tender heart!
I thus pray that this reply here has been able to get you started
toward an ever deeper and fuller understanding of the
revelation for us of the TRUTH BEARER Vision
of
love-not-force.
Hallelujah!
May the Spirit of our Lord be with you, bless you, guide you,
and bring all the matter of His truth and love to you,
that you joy might surely ever be full in Him!
YHWH bless...
---Mark
Founder
TRUTH BEARER
Acts 24:14
http://truthbearer.org
Continuing the Reformation...
Bringing Christian Polygamy to the Churches
© January 06, 2001, TruthBearer.org
P.O. Box 765, O.O.B., ME 04064
