CourtTV   News
February 14, 2007
10:40 am EST (U.S.)
CourtTV News

On February 14, 2007, Mark Henkel, the Founder of the TruthBearer.org organization, appeared as a phone-in guest on the pay network CourtTV's news talk show, OPEN COURT: Bloom & Politan. Speaking over a backdrop of his own picture and a satellite image of Old Orchard Beach, Maine, Mr. Henkel was there to provide a national perspective in the then-current trial, Arizona v. Bateman.

CourtTV provides the following bios of the co-hosts: Lisa Bloom and Vinnie Politan.

Over the previous year, Mr. Henkel had been a repeated on-air guest for one of the co-host's own morning news radio show, CourtTV Morning with Vinnie Politan on Sirius 110. Consequently, as CourtTV News television was providing ongoing live coverage of the Arizona v. Bateman trial, Mr. Politan naturally recommended having Mr. Henkel appear for comment on the television news show he co-anchored with Lisa Bloom.

However, on the date of Mr. Henkel's appearance on the televison show, Mr. Politan was unavailable to co-host the show that day. Temporarily sitting in for him as co-host was Jeffrey Toobin, Senior Legal Analyst at CNN.

As Lisa Bloom's bio shows, she has established her renown in her own right. Add to that, she is also the daughter of well-known feminist, Gloria Allred - whose own web-site describes herself as "the most famous woman attorney practicing law in the nation today." With that background, Lisa Bloom certainly did not approach the interview with Mark Henkel from any form of conservative or pro-polygamy perspective.

Indeed, the discussion began lively, filled with questions of frequently-misunderstood perceptions about polygamy. Even so, both Ms. Bloom and Mr. Toobin conducted themselves very professionally. By the end, Ms. Bloom (and likely to her surprise) was very positive toward Mr. Henkel's explanation of the polygamy rights movement for consenting adults at the national level.

Discussion Transcript

LISA BLOOM: Joining us now by phone from Old Orchard Beach, Maine, is Mark Henkel. Mark is the National Polygamy Advocate, and the founder of the TruthBearer.org organization. Thanks for joining us. MARK HENKEL: Well, thank you. LISA BLOOM: All right. So, we're hearing that in this community what is emphasized is one husband, three wives. So, what happens to all the extra men? MARK HENKEL: Well, actually, what you have here is, people in a group of one local Utah area surrendering their minds to the leadership that tells them who they can marry and what to do, and all that. That's not representative of polygamy on the national level. LISA BLOOM: Ok, well I don't know - I - not sure I understand that. But polygamy on any level is always one man and a bunch of wives, two or more wives. I mean, so what happens to all the extra men? Because I've heard that what happens in some of these communities is the young men - particularly 17, 18, 19 years old - they gotta run them out of their community because they're a threat to the older men who want to get married to these 17, 18 year old girls. MARK HENKEL: Well, what you've heard is propaganda of one little, local group of Utah. You've got to remember, America is bigger than - LISA BLOOM: - So what happens to all the extra men? MARK HENKEL: ...one little geographic area of Utah/Arizona. That's not the case for consenting adult polygamists around the country. That, that whole idea that all the world is represented by one little, local group is like saying all religions are represented by Jonestown. LISA BLOOM: Ok, but I'm just doing simple math. There's a gotta be a surplus of men that have nobody to marry because there's three or four women for each man that's married. MARK HENKEL: Actually, that's - that's not true. We're in a society of marriage-phobic males and abandoned single moms. And if you talk about those who care about giving women options, the idea of men who want marriage, especially stepping up for those who are marriage-phobic, and actually helping some of the abandoned single moms have choices and maybe get some education and they can do what they want, as well, and free choice. We're talking about choices for consenting adults. It's not the idea that the propaganda of one little local Utah group of criminals. JEFFREY TOOBIN of CNN: Mark, let, let me ask you a question about polygamy. Is there a - in this case the issue is underage marriage. And often, when we hear about polygamy, particularly, in these communities out in, in Utah, there are young women involved. The question here is, are they too young? Is there something about polygamy that tends to involve older men and very much younger women? MARK HENKEL: Absolutely not. That is something that is, again, associating only the criminals in that one particular area. You have to remember that a neutral noun is not modifed by a missing adjective. This is Mormon Polygamy with these criminals here, and that particular group tends to be involved with the underage issue. Back in 2001, we called Tom Green, at the national level we called Tom Green the "polygamy Tim MacVeigh" because we oppose welfare fraud, oppose underage marriage, on a national movement level, oppose all the Mormon ideas. There's Mormon Polygamy, Christian Polygamy, secular polygamy, it's all applied differently. LISA BLOOM: Ok, Mark, hang on. Jeffrey's got a question - JEFFREY TOOBIN of CNN: Ah - ah - outside of these Mormon groups - and it's not really fair to call them Mormon because the official Mormon Church rejects polygamy - MARK HENKEL: Well, see, that's part of the propaganda. That's propaganda. JEFFREY TOOBIN of CNN: Let, let me finish my question. MARK HENKEL (continuing): They use Mormon principles, they're Mormon Polygamists. JEFFREY TOOBIN of CNN: You're a spokesman for polygamy outside of what you call these, these, you know, Mormon sect criminals. Where is polygamy actively practiced in the United States outside of Utah. MARK HENKEL: All around the country as consenting adults, not in aggregated communities - where simply, there may be, for example, an abandoned single mom joins an existing family as consenting adults. We're talking about what consenting adults choose to do... JEFFREY TOOBIN of CNN: How many people are we taking about? MARK HENKEL: ...not these aggregated communities. JEFFREY TOOBIN of CNN: How many, that you are aware of, I mean, how many people? MARK HENKEL: We're saying that there's less than 100,000 around the country. JEFFREY TOOBIN of CNN: Less than 100,000. LISA BLOOM: Ok, but Mark, here's the problem. Do we have women that get multiple husbands in any of these polygamous communities? MARK HENKEL: Well, in a laissez faire economics, whatever consenting adults choose to do. If that's what adults are going to choose to do, that's what they can choose to do. LISA BLOOM: But it doesn't happen in practice in these fundamentalist groups. It doesn't happen in practice. MARK HENKEL: Well, that's what consenting adults choose to do. The idea is, for example, of choice for women. If one woman wants to work and another woman wants to stay home, now they both have the choice. And the one who goes to work can know her children are being raised by a woman who loves the children, instead of low-paid strangers at daycare. LISA BLOOM: Ok, well, I buy that. And you and I, may be, can find some common ground on the issue of choice. But the problem I have is in the cases, like for example, in the case we're looking at right now, it doesn't seem to be any element of a free choice because there's a heavy religious indoctrination that tells girls, "You're wicked if you leave the community. You're wicked and sinful if you don't marry the man that Warren Jeffs had a revelation last night that you'd marry." I mean, that's the problem, and - if they're pregnant, or if they have a child, and they try to leave, they generally are cut off from their children. So really, there's no issue of free choice. MARK HENKEL: Well, the problem is, that the national movement has always stood against the very things you correctly complained about right there, about that particular local sect. You can't define all America, defined by what one group of criminals do. In 2001, Tom Green was sentenced and charged, right? We called him the "polygamy Tim MacVeigh" and stood out against all of that. LISA BLOOM: Mm-hm. [Affirmative.] MARK HENKEL: That same year, FLDS criminal leader Warren Jeffs assigned this 17 year old girl to Mr. Bateman - that very same year. Here we are on the national level screaming out against the very thing he's doing. LISA BLOOM: Well, I'm glad you are. I'm glad, I'm glad to hear that. Mark, are you a polygamist? MARK HENKEL: That's not an answer I answer. LISA BLOOM: All right. Well, thanks so much for joining us. Mark Henkel from TruthBearer organization. MARK HENKEL: Thank you for having me. LISA BLOOM [cutting to commercial]: We'll be right back.

Prior to the end of the show, a separate host (for the next show to follow afterward) was presented for a quick conversation with Ms. Bloom, Jami Floyd: Best Defense. She enthusiastically expressed how she has always found the polygamy topic interesting from a legal and First Amendment perspective. Ms. Floyd stated, "Well, I say, you should be able to have as many Valentines as you want, and wives too!. (The current date of this statement was, of course, "Valentine's Day" - February 14, 2007.)

Finally, in closing the OPEN COURT: Bloom & Politan show completely, Lisa Bloom directly accepted and repeated the exact pro-polygamy position explained throughout the interview by Mr. Henkel. She said, "Consenting adults can do whatever they want. Just don't force it on the 17-year-old girls."

Both Mr. Henkel and the entire TruthBearer.org organization are grateful to CourtTV, Ms. Bloom, and Mr. Toobin for their professionalism and for providing the opportunity to let the real issues about polygamy to be presented. That gratitude also extrends to Mr. Politan for his initial recommendation in the first place, even though he was unable to be there on that particular date. Undoubtedly, this interview demonstrates that even potential skeptics can accept the consenting-adult pro-polygamy perspective when they are honestly able to receive the actual information. The entire TruthBearer.org organization is grateful indeed.

TruthBearer.org Media [Directory] Court TV February 14, 2007 - Bloom & Politan: OPEN COURT    [Entire Transcript] September 20, 2007 - Bloom & Politan: OPEN COURT    [Members, Hear it online] September 20, 2007 - Jami Floyd: BEST DEFENSE    [Members, Hear it online] September 21, 2007 - Jami Floyd: BEST DEFENSE    [Members, Hear it online] September 24, 2007 - CourtTV.com Online Chat Guest September 26, 2007 - Jami Floyd: BEST DEFENSE    [Members, Hear it online]

Also See:

TruthBearer.org Media [Directory] Court TV Morning with Vinnie Politan March 28, 2006 - Response to "Big Love" September 05, 2006 - Response to Warren Jeffs Capture November 22, 2006 - Jeffs Hearing Proves Case not about Polygamy December 22, 2006 - How Polygamists Manage Christmas August 08, 2007 - Michel Bryant, Trial Correspondent (filling in) November 13, 2007 - Michel Bryant, Trial Correspondent (filling in)   [Members, Hear it online]